callistra | Moral Question about Birthday Presents

For my birthday, we provided a fully catered dinner for 85 people and a good number of alcoholic drinks (an entire crate and a bit of champagne to start with) etc. One of the girls who came along bought us a present, which was very nice.

Now it's her 30th, and there's a surprise dinner at a pub, plus a trip to the casino. We've dodged the Casino bit (we hate the casino) and we have no money. We'll be paying for our own dinners, so I am allowing a certain amount to cover that and a few drinks. It's all very low key.

I got an email from my mum today talking about buying her a present, and us putting some money into it as well. I'm a bit ambivalent about this. So, I'm curious what other people think.

[Poll #502048]

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I'd go to dinner and buy a little pressie (like something body shop-y)

Now there's an idea.
:-)

I agree with this, I don't think it is a yes or no answer. I don't think you *should* be obligated to give them a present just because they gave you one or because they invited you to their party, but I also think it is enjoyable to give gifts. If you feel like you would like to give a gift but don't have much money then buy something nice but inexpensive that you think they will like, or make or bake something even.

Likewise, just because you splashed out and chose to pay for your guests doesn't mean that they *should* be anymore obligated to buy you gifts that they can't afford.

I didn't expect any one to give me anything. I wanted to celebrate with my friends.

I never said I did expect anything just because I paid for their food etc. I also did not expect any one to spend as much money on me, as I spent on them.

yeah, sorry about that, I didn't mean to imply that you did have expectations - I assumed that you didn't and meant to point that out, i.e. the cost of the party provided doesn't = size of obligation.

There's so much involved in this too, I guess - she's my mum's best friend's daughter. And the last time we went out with this group of people, they put us $40 or more over our budget (we had allowed $110) even though we tracked our purchases and they came to $108 including the bottle of wine we ordered for the whole table.) We just accepted it that time around, even though one of the sisters told them all that she and her husband was only paying exactly for what they ordered, and I wanted to do the same, but for happiness' sake we just let them organise it badly instead. :-) I had been wondering how they were going to sort out the bill, since it was never explained in the email.

And everything's all awkward; it's like going to a family thing, we don't get on very well with this group of people (*grin* they're just not quite like us) and now that I'm pregnant we actually *have* something to talk about. Otherwise we all sit around staring out of windows trying to think of something to say.

I love presents personally, but never expect them from friends. From Chesh, *always!!* :-)

*urgh*

Easiest path is just give mother money and give in. I'm still getting used to this budget thing, and this is probably the first real test. Why can't we go back to earning >5k a month?? *grin*

Sorry I was a bit negative in the previous response. I love cooking, and love to cook for people, and very recently we've started a bit of a tradition of cooking for celebrations rather than gift giving (like... in the last two months, what with mother's day and mother's birthday etc) but this is really only immediate family still. I'd love to make her some cookies or a nice cake, but I don't know if they/she would appreciate it. I don't know her very well at all, really!

I spose the combination of uncertainty of a good time, coupled with the length of drive to get there, and the cost involved all sort of lean *against* me. I'm sure it will be OK. We can talk about obstetricians and children and excitement plus things like that. *sigh* :-)

And I'm sure there is going to be the expectation that we all "buy a few drinks" or "a bottle of wine" as well, which means an uncertain time, a budget of well over $100, and a 45 minute drive there and back. I'm trying to keep my food budget to under a hundred bucks a week.

Anyway! I think I have vented at you! I'm sorry, but thank you, cos I feel heaps better for it! LOL. Now I need to look at these issues seperately and decide if I'm being a whingey cow or what!
;-)

It's so weird, this budget thing. I'm enjoying it immensely, but sometimes it takes work. We've never actually had to budget this finely before.

Ah, that all makes more sense now. Glad venting helped!

Complicated doesn't half cover it :)

Personally I stopped being all that fussed about receiving birthday presents a looong time ago - I sometimes contemplate trying to talk my way out of participating in the tradition altogether, although it would probably upset my parents and at least one of my siblings no end.

Budgeting is scary. Jeanette and I probably should be, but instead we just get freaked out whenever we see how much the bank account has shrunk from one month to the next, console ourselves with the number of 'one-offs' we can spot with which to try and justify it, and then um and ah about whether we can really afford that holiday we were planning :-/

I'll add to the chorus of gifting something token under the circumstances - any chance of talking your contribution to a joint gift down to a sensible level?

Doesn't that scare you when you see the money dwindling away? Don't you want to do something? :-)

We had to go through our one-offs for the past year, and they were between $500 - $1,000 per month.

The pregnancy means less conventions though, and less flying across australia, so there's already huge savings.

It's more scary when I have to consider not doing/buying something that in previous years I wouldn't have blinked at. It helps that in part we were saving pretty seriously the last several years in the UK in order to have the opportunity we have at the moment, but even given that I will still have to alter my life balance towards things that at least have the potential for eventually generating some income again in the not too distant future.

Your figure for one-offs doesn't surprise me in the least. They really do make budgetting difficult!

any chance of talking your contribution to a joint gift down to a sensible level?

I'll second that too. There is no real reason that everyone has to contribute to a shared gift evenly, the beauty of shared gifts is that everyone can give proportionally to what they can afford and/or how much they care.

When I was younger I always liked the story about Jesus and the woman who came to the temple and gave only a few coins (totally not religious BTW and probably taking this out of context) and then all the other people said "boo, you suck for giving such a lousy offering" and then Jesus said " no way dude, you guys suck, she is giving everything she has and more than she can really afford and even though you guys are paying hundreds of times more, in percentage terms you're like, not even coming close, so shut up and give her a break, she's doing way more than you. screw you guys, I'm going home."

or at least it goes something like that

I also really loved the story of the little drummer boy, it was my favorite Christmas carol for the same reason.

he Little Drummer boy was also one of my favourites *grin*

And I love that story! John reckons if more of the bible was written like that, we'd all be better followers *grin*

I think the bible and other religious teachings have a LOT of important stuff in it like that, but people tend to focus on the other stuff more. Jesus was always about love, not bigotry or division. :-)

And no one's going to accuse you of being religious around here.
;-)

fabulous retelling!

see... this is why I ticked the 'needs more information and coffee' option :)

Apologies again.
:-!

Do you even have to go to this party? If it was me I think I would fake sick and not turn up at all...

I totally understand about the budget thing though. And splitting bills is always awkward, I wonder if there are written rules for bill splitting etiquette anywhere... My last work Christmas party turned into a bitch fight between four or so people that lasted about six weeks and contributed to two staff turnovers because of the way the bill was handled (cunningly the meal I chose was the exact mean average so it didn't bother me if we split or payed separately :) )

One evening at the last Swancon Jeanette and I were among the three people under 40 at a table where everyone else was at least considerably older than us. The three of us ordered specific dishes, and everyone else ordered expensive banquet type deals. Wanting to pay separately, I put in what I thought was correct for the two of us, not realising that a drink Jeanette had snaffled from the bar for me hadn't been paid for yet. An honest mistake that I was quite happy to be corrected on, but the lady who came down from the far end of the table where the money was being piled up was unnecessarily rude to Jeanette when querying our contribution :-(

Ouch. I'm *reasonably sure* it wasn't me.....

There's ways to ask without being rude, after all. Some people forget this. I hate watching other people try and sort out the bill because there's really only two ways to do it - one is average cost per head, and the other is every one has a PDA/phone/excel capable device and we get the bill and we sort it out that way.

My preference is: cheap resturaunts!!! LOL. I love chinese banquets - every one already knows the cost. I love chinese resturaunts as a whole - Northbridgey goodness and cheap too! If I can keep a celebratory meal to less than $20 a head, I am happy. These days, however, even sizzler comes in at about $22 - 25 a head doesn't it?

'm *reasonably sure* it wasn't me.....

LOL, it's ok, you're safe :)

I'm with you on the throwing in a little extra when finances aren't too tight, too.

Besides, when we have money, we like to throw in a little extra to help because someone often forgets their lemon squash, or else we have garlic bread, or else because we think the idiot er volunteer trying to organise to pay the bill could probably do with a little ease....

yeah, that's the real problem. I don't think there was any reason to be rude to you about it, especially because everyone does it. Someone(s) always forgets or miss-factors drinks, bread, corkage, public holiday surcharges what ever and the last person to leave is left with the gap. This can be solved easily with everyone agreeing at the start to put in a dollar or two extra just in case and leaving the excess as a tip, though the more current occurrence is rudeness and fighting.

Come to think of it even the thought of bill dividing at expensive restaurants makes me nervous and edgy and less likely to enjoy the meal as a whole. I totally agree with the idea of just going to a cheap restaurant esp. an asian one where the tradition is to all share dishes and keep the cost reasonable to start. Or another good one for a more special but more expensive meal is something like La Cascade where is it a set price of something like $45 and BYO. And I also agree making the arrangements clear at the start goes along way.

Or even better, a picnic where everyone brings their own stuff... anyone up for a picnic?

*peers outside*

Er... yes... but not today ....

:-)

LOL

My Mum lives across the road.
Kind of makes it hard. She might rock up to clean my house again or something equally ...surprising. :-) And I gave her a key the other day.

However, after the last time she knew we were home and yet didn't answer the door, I am sure she will be more careful in future. (Key phrase I used on her - "I was still tied up and JOHN HAD LUBE TO HIS ELBOWS!!!!") Tee hee hee.

When I organise these sorts of things, I like to detail it in the invite, so no one has any rude shocks or budget pain. Also means there's no fights at the end over anything. :-)

And I'm sure there is going to be the expectation that we all "buy a few drinks" or "a bottle of wine" as well, which means an uncertain time, a budget of well over $100, and a 45 minute drive there and back.

$100+ and an hour and a half driving and an uncertain time seems like too much too me. I say buy a small gift, give it to you mum to pass on with your apologies and settle in at home with a good video.

The cost of the gift is not the main issue rather giving a small gift as a token is important. I think bodyshop would be an excellent median. It is personal but not overly expensive. But coffee sounds good also. :)

We'll be seeing you tonight
*grin*
Are you going to sing??
Or are managers not allowed to do that sort of thing...

The event you described sounds torturous...lol.

I'm going to someone's birthday thing tonight. I have no idea why considering it's the female who said to me "Aren't you geting married to soon? Thanks, you f*cked up my dream, I was supposed to get married before you" (never mind she had no bf at the time) and "F*cken bitch, I'd better be a f*cking bridesmaid then."

*thinks* I shouldn't be going, hey. LOL

I think setting a limit on how much you feel comfortable spending on presents (per present and per year) is perfectly reasonable. If you have a budget of $X for presents, and stick to it, that's perfectly fair. No one is going to want you to miss out on a con or anything else important to you so that you can buy them a gift!

Personally, one of the things I'd most like to get would be a handmade card that entitled me to the person's time for lunch, coffee, a shopping trip etc.

My two favorite presents are art that people made... I think that's really special because its something unique that they made, not something mass-produced.

A good gift is something that every time you look at it, it reminds you of the person who gave it to you, and gives you a warm fuzzy glow.

I try to make most of my presents these days. A dozen hand made cards they can use as they please (blank inside), massage oils, bath bombs (recipe is easy, can give it to you if you want), decorated candles, even drinks coasters that I have decorated myself. While the components might not be expensive, I generally put quite a bit of time into making them. And then I put hand decorated tags on the bottles of message oil with the ingredients, or put the bath bombs into individual organza bags, stuff like that.

this is particularly useful for relatives / family friends. especially if parents are present. You can say "I made it myself, just for you" and if they make any nasty comments they come off looking very bad to everyone ;-)

Not that I have ever received negative comments. Some friends now request the blank card packs in preference to anything else (hey - my cards retail in Newtown for $6.50. That means the retail price would be nearly $80 if they had to purchase them themselves).

Anyway, just some ideas for presents. The bath bombs are really easy to make, they just take a few days to set (longer for larger moulds). Or buy some white pillar candles, some white tissue or mulbury paper which you decorate, and then attach to the candle by gentle heating the wax. The paper dissolves as the candle burns, so no extra fire hazards.

Coasters - buy craft wood shapes (which you have to paint first) or ceramic tiles from a hardware store). Collage / decoupage a few pictures (they don't have to be the same as long as they have a similar theme), sprinkle with gold leaf flakes or mica powders (or anything else metallic / shiney) and then seal with one of the two-part resins that give a glass like surface. Then I generally sick some rubber dots on each corner and edge each tile with a gold or silver paint pen (acrylics prob work as well). Again, they take a bit of time to set but they look really funky.

Mmm... ideas...
Cool, thanks for those! I loved your cards, they look expensive and fantastic - but I have no talent at all when it comes to doing anything with my hands other than typing.

However, I did have an idea last night - I bought a pancake frying pan the other day, and it's fantastic because a) it's the perfect size b) non-stick and c)has the recipe imprinted on the bottom of the pan! So I was thinking I should buy one or two of those, and a pouring tupperware type sealable jug and a couple of small bits and peices so it all comes together for less than $15 - 20, and give away a kit. Pancake mix also lasts a couple of days in the fridge too, so you don't have to eat the entire batch on day one!

I'll probably come back and re-read all of your ideas when I'm a bit more comfortable with trying to make stuff. I did get into making cards but mine always looked pretty crappy. :-) No skill! Yours were just gorgeous.
:-)

I ticked Yes, mainly because I know a few people with food allergies. The problem with restaurant food is often even the cooks aren't entirely sure what's in their food because they use pre-prepared sauces, etc.

Even if you don't have food allergy reasons, I can't see the harm in bringing something along and telling anyone who asks, "The budget's a bit tight this week, but, I still wanted to catch up." Though

babalon_93's suggestion has a bit of merit too ;-).

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Moral Question about Birthday Presents

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